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Post by mhbruin on Jun 15, 2020 7:50:07 GMT -8
There are many, many cases of unjustified police violence against blacks. I am not sure this is one of them.
1. The police had a valid reason for starting, with him sleeping in the drive-thru.
2. The sobriety test was reasonable.
3. The arrest was reasonable.
4. He actively resisted arrest.
5. He wrested away a weapon.
6. He aimed the weapon at the cop.
Was the use of a gun by the cop, the best choice? i don't know. Was it a horrible choice? I don't think so.
Not all acts of violence against black men are the same. BLM should pick their cases carefully. They have plenty to choose from, and there are clearer cases.
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Post by blindness on Jun 15, 2020 8:40:41 GMT -8
The police know who he is. They have his car. They have a justifiable reason to arrest him. He has already pointed the taser at the police. Where's he going to go? He's going to fall asleep somewhere and unless he gives up his whole life and assumes a new identity and moves to Alaska, they can pick him up later. It's not like he's a deranged killer who will go on a killing spree with that taser.
Slap a longer sentence when he's caught.
Now we have a dead person, and I don't know, widows and orphans maybe? Don't know much about the victim here. But it's a life that's lost in this shuffle. A person's life.
I think it was unjustified.
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Post by andyh64000 on Jun 15, 2020 9:20:50 GMT -8
The police know who he is. They have his car. They have a justifiable reason to arrest him. He has already pointed the taser at the police. Where's he going to go? He's going to fall asleep somewhere and unless he gives up his whole life and assumes a new identity and moves to Alaska, they can pick him up later. It's not like he's a deranged killer who will go on a killing spree with that taser. Slap a longer sentence when he's caught. Now we have a dead person, and I don't know, widows and orphans maybe? Don't know much about the victim here. But it's a life that's lost in this shuffle. A person's life. I think it was unjustified. I agree. He shot an unarmed fleeing man in the back. He could have let him go and picked him up an hour later. What I don't understand is why the second cop was suspended unless it is just administrative leave while they investigate. |
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Post by copyboy on Jun 15, 2020 9:44:01 GMT -8
It's telling this is even a debate. Of course it wasn't justified.
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hasben
Resident Member
Posts: 1,028
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Post by hasben on Jun 15, 2020 9:58:47 GMT -8
Cops are only authorized to use lethal force when their lives or the lives of others are in imminent danger. There was absolutely zero threat to anyone's life in this situation. He should be charged with murder.
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Post by mhbruin on Jun 15, 2020 10:05:07 GMT -8
The rule in Atlanta says "when threatened with a weapon". The question is whether a taser counts as a weapon.
I would feel damned scared if I thought someone was going to shoot me with a taser. Tasers have been known to kill.
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Post by andyh64000 on Jun 15, 2020 11:34:40 GMT -8
The rule in Atlanta says "when threatened with a weapon". The question is whether a taser counts as a weapon. I would feel damned scared if I thought someone was going to shoot me with a taser. Tasers have been known to kill. I think this is a good example of how Police can be retrained to not shoot in that situation. it is difficult for most people to shoot someone so right now they are trained to do it almost by instinct against any threat. |
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Post by blindness on Jun 15, 2020 11:57:17 GMT -8
Also a good reason to rethink policing: Why did that situation require police officers? Why is be being arrested even? Do the sobriety test, tell him he can't drive, move the car out of the way, put him in your car, take him home, give him a ticket and say good night.
Nobody dies, nobody feels like their lives are threatened.
Let's keep in mind that arrests like this have a bigger impact on folks' lives than we tend to imagine.
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Post by Floppy Johnson on Jun 15, 2020 12:04:39 GMT -8
Also a good reason to rethink policing: Why did that situation require police officers? Why is be being arrested even? Do the sobriety test, tell him he can't drive, move the car out of the way, put him in your car, take him home, give him a ticket and say good night. Nobody dies, nobody feels like their lives are threatened. Let's keep in mind that arrests like this have a bigger impact on folks' lives than we tend to imagine. Wait, are you saying we shouldn't have laws against DUI? You can't convict anyone of DUI based on a field sobriety test. What kind of ticket do you mean? |
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Post by Floppy Johnson on Jun 15, 2020 12:10:56 GMT -8
Here's the deal. Any suspect can escalate a confrontation to the point where a cop would have to use dangerous force to arrest him/her.
Unless the person is putting someone in danger, the police officer should advise the suspect that he/she is under arrest. Then, ask the suspect, "would you like to come to the station for booking, and possibly incarceration until bond is set?"
If the suspect says "no," then the officer says "thank you sir, ma'am, have a nice day." And a warrant for arrest is issued. If the suspect wants to set an appointment for booking, they can call the police and arrange said appointment. If not, they warrant shall remain outstanding - never to be enforced, but on their record.
No dangerous force is used. No one dies. Everyone is happy.
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Post by blindness on Jun 15, 2020 12:14:06 GMT -8
Also a good reason to rethink policing: Why did that situation require police officers? Why is be being arrested even? Do the sobriety test, tell him he can't drive, move the car out of the way, put him in your car, take him home, give him a ticket and say good night. Nobody dies, nobody feels like their lives are threatened. Let's keep in mind that arrests like this have a bigger impact on folks' lives than we tend to imagine. Wait, are you saying we shouldn't have laws against DUI? No, but I don't understand why the police need to enforce it. Same way I don't understand why the police is involved in giving traffic tickets. You can have an entirely different service that is not the police do those things. I am pretty sure that the death-by-cop rates would take a significant drop. |
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Post by Floppy Johnson on Jun 15, 2020 12:19:29 GMT -8
Wait, are you saying we shouldn't have laws against DUI? No, but I don't understand why the police need to enforce it. Same way I don't understand why the police is involved in giving traffic tickets. You can have an entirely different service that is not the police do those things. I am pretty sure that the death-by-cop rates would take a significant drop. As someone who has driven wayyyyyyyyy too drunk, wayyyyyyyyyyyyy too many times (not in a bout 20 years, though), I will say the police absolutely do need to enforce it. The penalties should be more stiff than they are. |
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Post by mhbruin on Jun 15, 2020 12:20:04 GMT -8
One reason minor infractions are police matters is the massive number of guns in the US. Every interaction is far more dangerous than it would be in the UK or Germany, leading to a more forceful response. The public is a greater threat, and so are the cops.
I don't see how we end this escalation.
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Post by blindness on Jun 15, 2020 12:46:03 GMT -8
No, but I don't understand why the police need to enforce it. Same way I don't understand why the police is involved in giving traffic tickets. You can have an entirely different service that is not the police do those things. I am pretty sure that the death-by-cop rates would take a significant drop. As someone who has driven wayyyyyyyyy too drunk, wayyyyyyyyyyyyy too many times (not in a bout 20 years, though), I will say the police absolutely do need to enforce it. The penalties should be more stiff than they are. I think you misread the emphasis. What I meant was:
"I don't understand why the police should be the ones to enforce it as opposed to a non-police entity".
What I did *not* mean was:
I don't understand why the police bother to enforce it
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Post by blindness on Jun 15, 2020 12:56:20 GMT -8
One reason minor infractions are police matters is the massive number of guns in the US. Every interaction is far more dangerous than it would be in the UK or Germany, leading to a more forceful response. The public is a greater threat, and so are the cops. I don't see how we end this escalation. The calculus could change if the person being stopped for a traffic violation knew that the person writing the ticket does not have the authority to go through the car, conduct a search and use the traffic stop as an escalation point to some trumped up charges or finding some reason to arrest a person.
In most cases, the car does not even need to be stopped unless the driver keeps violating them right and left and speeding through intersections like a madman. If that happens, yeah, you need to escalate. But for a rolling stop? For a broken turn signal light? For expired registration? It's those ticky tack violations where a lot of the interactions starts and turns into a full on armed confrontation.
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