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Post by mhbruin on Jan 22, 2023 10:52:29 GMT -8
I am struggling to write something. I am not sure I want to call the bulk of Republicans "racist" or "white supremacist", but clearly their views on many issues are motivated by race. How do I describe these people? Is there a term for these "sort of racist" or "semi-racist" people?
Here's what I wrote. I would welcome any suggestions on how to improve it or fix it.
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A significant portion of the Republican Party is a group of people who are unhappy about minorities. They may hold beliefs such as “Black people are not less successful because of institutional racism. It’s because they aren’t as hard working as white people and because black fathers are absent from their children’s’ lives.”
Most Republicans agree with the statement, “People like me are asked to make too many sacrifices for people of another race.”
They don’t want Black people to move into their neighborhood or attend their kids schools, not because they hate Black people, but because they are worried about lowering the property values or increased crime.
The Republican voter is inclined to believe that our system today favors Blacks and that whites are discriminated against. Most believe that the government is taking money from hard-working whites and giving it to lazy Blacks on welfare. Even some white people on government assistance believe this.
Are these people racists? Here’s how one dictionary defines “racist”.
1) Having, reflecting, or fostering the belief that race is a fundamental determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race.
2) of, relating to, or characterized by the systemic oppression of a racial group to the social, economic, and political advantage of another.
The bulk of Republican voters don’t seem to fit either of these definitions. They don’t believe or express the beliefs that Blacks are genetically inferior to whites. There are full-blown racists and white supremacists in the Republican Party. You can see Confederate battle flags at many Republican events. However, this is a minority of Republicans.
Most Republicans are not engaged in overt action to “keep Blacks in their place”, like Ku Klux Klan members do.
So what do we call these people who feel racial anxiety? How do we describe these people, while we don’t lump them in with racist southern sheriffs like Bull Connor and people who showed up with baseball bats to keep their schools from being integrated or to welcome Freedom Riders?
There is a difference between a hard-core racist and a Republican voter who votes Republican because they believe that somehow “real Americans” are losing control of the country. Let’s call them “racially biased”.
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Post by blindness on Jan 22, 2023 12:48:11 GMT -8
So if I'm allowed to put on my linguist hat for a moment, I'd say people should never be fully locked into any dictionary definition of a concept.
First of all, meaning shifts all the time. Sometimes it's subtle sometimes more overt. Sometimes it's slow, sometimes it's fast. Sometimes the context makes a difference. So for example the term "racist" may mean a different thing in a courtroom than it does in social interactions. (And yes, meanings of words are very fluid)
Second, these definitions are written by people who are products of their times, their preconceptions of the world and yes their beliefs. They are given an aura of authority but that does not immunize them against all the usual issues we have in our lives when we try to define concepts.
In so many words what I'm saying is, people who define the concept of racism will al mm oat always define it in ways that make sure they themselves do not come out as racists.
What you're describing to me is racism. I can think of ways to soften it through euphemisms, or try to create gradations of racism and try to put those on a "not as harmless as the extremes" place on the scale, but at the end of the day, these are racist traits. Most importantly, the fact that a person recognizes bits and pieces of these in themselves does not automatically make them non-racist because they're "obviously" not racists.
A lot of white defensiveness and endless redefinitions of racism is, at the end of the day, an attempt bu white folks trying to insulate themselves of the concept/accusation.
So long story short, dictionaries be damned. What you're describing is a form of racism, which itself is a concept that covers a broad area of human behavior/ reaction.
(Types this on my phone. I hope the end result is readable.)
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Post by mhbruin on Jan 22, 2023 15:52:22 GMT -8
Blindness:
I must admit my first instinct is to call these people racists. Perhaps what I am struggling with is whether there are degrees of racism or degrees of how far people will go to express their racism.
Clearly there is a difference between making it harder to vote and lynching blacks who try to vote. I think there is a difference between objecting to teaching Black history because it makes white kids (or more accurately their parents) feel bad and joining a mob to stop school segregation.
I hesitate to call the bulk of Republicans racist, because this leads to a knee-jerk reaction of denial. I think it also misses a distinction between the traditional racist and the person who worries about property values. There is probably some factual basis to the property value issue, although it is something of a self-fulfilling prophesy. If Blacks moving in leads to white flight, the rush to sell can lower property values, too.
Is the fear of crime racist or factually based? Probably some of each.
This is what I struggle with. Am I kidding myself by trying to draw a distinction?
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Post by blindness on Jan 22, 2023 16:45:09 GMT -8
I think there are probably degreesto anything and I know that there is such a thing as virulent racism vs mundane racism or even ambient racism.
We all go through life as a species that is very strong generalizes and with all kinds of scattered information around us about class, sex, race, violence, drugs, crime, and other social issues. Generalization is what makes us human. And it is not something we do consciously. It's instinctive stuff. That's how we survived as a species. Well at least that's one of the factors.
So whether one is racist or not very often comes down to how much various markers and parameters weigh in forming our generalizations. So we will all be somewhere on a bias spectrum along any of these axises (axes?) . That to me is a given.
Now as to how to talk about this stuff in the presence of people who don't assume that they may have any racially biased opinions, I'd say it depends on where you think they are. If it is run of the mill bias, mostly harmless, but more along the lines of silly assumptions, you can talk about ambient racism that is in the cultural environment that is often undetectable. Keeping it humble helps. Because at the end of the day , I believe, what they're often reacting to is relative rankings. If they feel you're trying to say they have racist assumptions and you don't, that's where the defensiveness starts. Including yourself and talking about unconscious biases (without using the r word) might help.
As for people you know are racists but believe they're not... I really dunno. I'm not a confrontational person so I avoid those discussions altogether.
I think worrying about the property values when a black family moves into your block is a really good example because (a) it is a good question that crystallizes what a person is picking up on wrt that family (are they middle class, social clues about how they dress and behave, and even what if they're a family directly from, I dunno Nigeria or something), and (b) there is also the worry about "I don't care but others do" which is a real factor.
I think that's one of the more fascinating hypotheticals about racism you can come up with.
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Post by sagobob on Jan 22, 2023 17:11:29 GMT -8
I am struggling to write something. I am not sure I want to call the bulk of Republicans "racist" or "white supremacist", but clearly their views on many issues are motivated by race. How do I describe these people? Is there a term for these "sort of racist" or "semi-racist" people? Here's what I wrote. I would welcome any suggestions on how to improve it or fix it. -------------------------- A significant portion of the Republican Party is a group of people who are unhappy about minorities. They may hold beliefs such as “Black people are not less successful because of institutional racism. It’s because they aren’t as hard working as white people and because black fathers are absent from their children’s’ lives.” Most Republicans agree with the statement, “People like me are asked to make too many sacrifices for people of another race.” They don’t want Black people to move into their neighborhood or attend their kids schools, not because they hate Black people, but because they are worried about lowering the property values or increased crime. The Republican voter is inclined to believe that our system today favors Blacks and that whites are discriminated against. Most believe that the government is taking money from hard-working whites and giving it to lazy Blacks on welfare. Even some white people on government assistance believe this. Are these people racists? Here’s how one dictionary defines “racist”. 1) Having, reflecting, or fostering the belief that race is a fundamental determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race. 2) of, relating to, or characterized by the systemic oppression of a racial group to the social, economic, and political advantage of another. The bulk of Republican voters don’t seem to fit either of these definitions. They don’t believe or express the beliefs that Blacks are genetically inferior to whites. There are full-blown racists and white supremacists in the Republican Party. You can see Confederate battle flags at many Republican events. However, this is a minority of Republicans. Most Republicans are not engaged in overt action to “keep Blacks in their place”, like Ku Klux Klan members do. So what do we call these people who feel racial anxiety? How do we describe these people, while we don’t lump them in with racist southern sheriffs like Bull Connor and people who showed up with baseball bats to keep their schools from being integrated or to welcome Freedom Riders? There is a difference between a hard-core racist and a Republican voter who votes Republican because they believe that somehow “real Americans” are losing control of the country. Let’s call them “racially biased”. Here's my $0.02 worth. I think racism could be expressed a being "culturally challenged". American Culture is shifting, and their comfort zone and perceived place in the social order is threatened. |
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Post by mhbruin on Jan 22, 2023 18:07:15 GMT -8
>>Here's my $0.02 worth. I think racism could be expressed a being "culturally challenged". American Culture is shifting, and their comfort zone and perceived place in the social order is threatened.
I don't doubt that racial anxiety drives a lot of Republicans. Some of it is fear of change to a culture where white people (particularly white men) have privileges and advantages that others don't. White men like that system, even if many of them won't admit that it exists. To avoid dealing with this hypocrisy, they form weird false beliefs like replacement theory or discrimination against white men.
I don't know if these subtler forms of racism are ultimately more dangerous than Nazis who march chanting about replacement. There are 10's of millions who subscribe to the subtle version.
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Post by mhbruin on Jan 22, 2023 18:12:18 GMT -8
I think there are probably degreesto anything and I know that there is such a thing as virulent racism vs mundane racism or even ambient racism. We all go through life as a species that is very strong generalizes and with all kinds of scattered information around us about class, sex, race, violence, drugs, crime, and other social issues. Generalization is what makes us human. And it is not something we do consciously. It's instinctive stuff. That's how we survived as a species. Well at least that's one of the factors. So whether one is racist or not very often comes down to how much various markers and parameters weigh in forming our generalizations. So we will all be somewhere on a bias spectrum along any of these axises (axes?) . That to me is a given. Now as to how to talk about this stuff in the presence of people who don't assume that they may have any racially biased opinions, I'd say it depends on where you think they are. If it is run of the mill bias, mostly harmless, but more along the lines of silly assumptions, you can talk about ambient racism that is in the cultural environment that is often undetectable. Keeping it humble helps. Because at the end of the day , I believe, what they're often reacting to is relative rankings. If they feel you're trying to say they have racist assumptions and you don't, that's where the defensiveness starts. Including yourself and talking about unconscious biases (without using the r word) might help. As for people you know are racists but believe they're not... I really dunno. I'm not a confrontational person so I avoid those discussions altogether. I think worrying about the property values when a black family moves into your block is a really good example because (a) it is a good question that crystallizes what a person is picking up on wrt that family (are they middle class, social clues about how they dress and behave, and even what if they're a family directly from, I dunno Nigeria or something), and (b) there is also the worry about "I don't care but others do" which is a real factor. I think that's one of the more fascinating hypotheticals about racism you can come up with. As you point out, there is a continuum of forms from virulent racism to relatively benign racism. This creates two problems. 1) There is no good way to draw lines on a continuum. 2) A problem with the word racism is that it covers such a wide range of people and beliefs, that it may make the term less useful. There's such a broad range from someone who bombs churches to people who worry about property values. If we call all of them "racists", does that make the word pretty useless. |
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hasben
Resident Member
Posts: 1,047
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Post by hasben on Jan 22, 2023 18:30:08 GMT -8
The bulk of Republican voters don’t seem to fit either of these definitions
I don't see how you can say that. Many if not most repubs perfectly fit both descriptions. The distinction between them and the kkk is that they aren't violent and they don't preach segregation.
Here's a better question. If someone doesn't care about racism either way does that make him a racist? Most repub voters simply ignore a lot of horrendous things about their party. ie they support trump. Does that mean that they personally think lying is fine? Maybe they have little personal concern about abortion issues and just ignore the repub position on that issue. Does that make them pro-life? So does voting repub automatically make them a racist?
There are some repub voters who are not racist, or pro-lying, or pro-life, but well know all the damage their party does, and they still vote repub. What are these people? They are mixtures of selfish, ignorant, heartless, pitiless, tribalist, and apathetic.
Is that worse than being a racist? LOL
Of course their pat answer is always the repubs, no matter how bad, are better than the libs. Friday night on Bill Maher when asked Bill Barr said he would vote for trump again if he was the party nominee even knowing he tried to overthrow the govt. He also added that the greatest threat to democracy was not the republican party but was the democrats war on free speech.
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