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Post by gainsborough on Aug 15, 2022 17:18:13 GMT -8
The obvious thought is that he will attempt to monetize them by selling them outright, or perhaps by dangling access to them as some sort of inducement for a busines deal.
OTOH, he may have taken them simply because he knows that other people value them.... in other words, the behavior of a malignant narcissist.
There are a lot of smart people in this forum. I'm at my wit's end. Does anyone have an explanation as to why Trump would take those documents?
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hasben
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Post by hasben on Aug 15, 2022 19:00:24 GMT -8
There has to be multiple reasons since there appears to be a variety of documents. Whatever info he had on the French president might be used for blackmail in a business negotiation.
If he did in fact have payroll and name info on undercover US spies I can only imagine one use for that. Sell it for money, or access, or support, or protection to Russia or the Saudis. The same could be said for nuclear info.
I can't imagine him using his possession of it to blackmail the government with a threat of its exposure if they come after him, but we should never underestimate any crackpot thing he might conjure up.
We don't know what else he had but I'm sure he had specific ideas for everything he took. You can bet none of it was accidental.
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Post by sagobob on Aug 16, 2022 9:13:16 GMT -8
The obvious thought is that he will attempt to monetize them by selling them outright, or perhaps by dangling access to them as some sort of inducement for a busines deal. OTOH, he may have taken them simply because he knows that other people value them.... in other words, the behavior of a malignant narcissist. There are a lot of smart people in this forum. I'm at my wit's end. Does anyone have an explanation as to why Trump would take those documents? With Mr. Impulsive-Short-Attention-Span, who really knows. How he came into the physical possession of such sensitive documents is a mystery to me. One likely possibility is they were brought to his office by staff members for intelligence briefings, and he decided he wanted to retain them for whatever reason. I'm sure his mind works along the lines of "how useful could this be for me". So maybe he heard something during intelligence briefings that could fit into a narrative he wished to create or pursue? Or maybe he liked to use classified information to surprise or shock foreign visitors by demonstrating just how much he knew that they didn't? Since I doubt that Trump is either a linear or nonlinear thinker, who knows what thoughts, in the form of impulses, flash through his little brain. When he speaks his mind wanders, as do his words. He's sloppy, and therefore dangerous. And because he's so self-absorbed, the only thing he cares about is protecting his brand as the smartest guy in the room, any room. And he places self above country, regardless of whatever damage it might do to the latter. |
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Post by mhbruin on Aug 16, 2022 10:32:55 GMT -8
I agree with the others. Unless we find evidence that he actually delivered anything to foreign powers, I don't know if we will ever know.
The other mystery is why an attorney sent a letter stating there were no other classified documents at MAL. Did he look? Did he take Trump's word? Why would he?
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hasben
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Post by hasben on Aug 16, 2022 11:48:23 GMT -8
I agree with the others. Unless we find evidence that he actually delivered anything to foreign powers, I don't know if we will ever know. The other mystery is why an attorney sent a letter stating there were no other classified documents at MAL. Did he look? Did he take Trump's word? Why would he? Almost a guarantee that the atty asked and was told no by trump. No way would the atty ask to search trump's home for documents. |
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Post by gainsborough on Aug 16, 2022 12:42:44 GMT -8
So the attorney is now burned. Nothing new there, Trump's path is always littered with roadkill.
But I'm still trying to figure out why Trump would steal material that was so complicated that he could never understand it, ever. I keep coming back to the thought they he wanted to take those documents only because he knew that other people valued them.
Trump will attempt to create an argument as to whether or not he had the right to take the documents. That's a fake controversy - of course he did not. But it will be a win for Trump if he can force the conversation towards a question of legality. In that case, he will be able to throw enough fluff into the air to keep his supporters in line.
And I understand that various watchdogs will continue to focus on the legality of his behavior, because that enables them to draw a straight line towards a Trump conviction. That's fine and good, but...
Let's not forget the real question: why did he take those documents to his hotel-home at all?
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hasben
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Post by hasben on Aug 16, 2022 12:54:20 GMT -8
>But I'm still trying to figure out why Trump would steal material that was so complicated that he could never understand it, ever
trump is very ignorant about many things but he's not completely stupid. He could certainly understand the value of selling highly dangerous info to rivals like Russia. He could definitely understand the value of blackmail with the French pres. And he may have had compromising info on numerous people. He doesn't need to understand nuclear procedures to know the value they hold to adversaries, and he certainly understands blackmail.
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Post by mhbruin on Aug 16, 2022 13:06:34 GMT -8
Many years ago, I had a "Secret" clearance. The documents were never fun or interesting to read. There was a lot of data like the range of this fighter or the dimensions of a weapon.
I never saw anything that would have tempted me in the slightest to want to keep it.
Of course, there were insanely strict rules about handling the documents, and they took them VERY seriously. For example, I could never leave my office and leave a document on my desk. It had to go back into the special secure cabinet and the cabinet had to be locked.
I cannot believe that Trump would not have been aware of how classified documents are supposed to be handled. It a BIG F-ING DEAL!
I never saw anything "Top Secret" or any intelligence information about foreign powers. Maybe those were more interesting.
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Post by sagobob on Aug 16, 2022 16:53:50 GMT -8
>But I'm still trying to figure out why Trump would steal material that was so complicated that he could never understand it, ever trump is very ignorant about many things but he's not completely stupid. He could certainly understand the value of selling highly dangerous info to rivals like Russia. He could definitely understand the value of blackmail with the French pres. And he may have had compromising info on numerous people. He doesn't need to understand nuclear procedures to know the value they hold to adversaries, and he certainly understands blackmail. I can see Trump "monetizing" the classified materials he has by hinting of its value to an ally or an adversary and using that value to secure favorable terms for financial assistance, to be concealed by layers of intermediaries. Trump has no sense of right or wrong; he'll do whatever it takes to get what he wants. He talks big but thinks small, which means only of himself. He is the enemy within. |
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Post by mhbruin on Aug 17, 2022 5:41:48 GMT -8
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Post by mhbruin on Aug 17, 2022 6:02:48 GMT -8
Here's a Theory
Michael Cohen, who was once former President Trump's personal lawyer, believes Trump kept top-secret documents at his Mar-a-Lago residence as potential bargaining chips that he could leverage if he were ever at risk of going to jail.
"My belief is that he was going to use it as a bargaining chip, as a get-out-of-jail-free card," Cohen said on CNN. "The second that they put him in handcuffs, he'll turn around and say, 'You don't seem to understand. I have the documentation showing, for example, where our nuclear launchpads are, or other information — sensitive national security information."
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Post by blindness on Aug 17, 2022 6:31:13 GMT -8
Here's a Theory
Michael Cohen, who was once former President Trump's personal lawyer, believes Trump kept top-secret documents at his Mar-a-Lago residence as potential bargaining chips that he could leverage if he were ever at risk of going to jail. "My belief is that he was going to use it as a bargaining chip, as a get-out-of-jail-free card," Cohen said on CNN. "The second that they put him in handcuffs, he'll turn around and say, 'You don't seem to understand. I have the documentation showing, for example, where our nuclear launchpads are, or other information — sensitive national security information." That's plausible. And it's also possible that it would be a secondary function in addition to providing to Russians what they wanted. I'm pretty sure he was given a list of docs to take with him. İ won't be surprised that he would actually compile a potential list of docs and ask his boss, Vlad, what he wants and Vlad would go down the shopping list and checks the ones he does. I think the horses have already left the barn. He was holding on to the docs because they have value. If he gets killed by polonium poisoning, his people would release those docs to, I dunno, China or something. I know there is no evidence, but is there ever any doubt that's what was going on? |
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hasben
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Post by hasben on Aug 17, 2022 14:06:30 GMT -8
>I'm pretty sure he was given a list of docs to take with him. İ won't be surprised that he would actually compile a potential list of docs and ask his boss, Vlad,
I think that's a pretty big stretch, but I have no doubt that he knew he could leverage the value of the documents with Russia or others. Remember we still don't know exactly what he had, and may never know. But I could imagine him ordering a staffer to bring him a list of our spies and the locations of our ICBM's. Hot property.
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Post by gainsborough on Aug 18, 2022 7:15:34 GMT -8
I am happy to report that we have an update. The initial theory that DJT took the classified documents to Mar a Lago simply to monetize them has been augmented with a second theory, summarized in the NY Times as follows:
"Mr. Trump, a pack rat who for decades showed off knickknacks in his overstuffed Trump Tower office — including a giant shoe that once belonged to the basketball player Shaquille O’Neal — treated the nation’s secrets as similar trinkets to brandish. White House aides described how excited he was to show off all the material he had access to, including letters from the North Korean leader Kim Jong-un, which he routinely waved at visitors, alarming his advisers."
In addition, the Times also reported: "Mr. Trump repeatedly had material sent up to the White House residence, and it was not always clear what happened to it. He sometimes asked to keep material after his intelligence briefings, but aides said he was so uninterested in the paperwork during the briefings themselves that they never understood what he wanted it for."
I guess that means our nation's nuclear codes were stored next to the giant Shaq-shoe, and adjacent to a piece of shiny glass that a magpie dropped on the driveway at Mar a Lago. They are all pretty much the same to Donald Trump... trinkets.
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Post by sagobob on Aug 18, 2022 9:15:42 GMT -8
I am happy to report that we have an update. The initial theory that DJT took the classified documents to Mar a Lago simply to monetize them has been augmented with a second theory, summarized in the NY Times as follows: "Mr. Trump, a pack rat who for decades showed off knickknacks in his overstuffed Trump Tower office — including a giant shoe that once belonged to the basketball player Shaquille O’Neal — treated the nation’s secrets as similar trinkets to brandish. White House aides described how excited he was to show off all the material he had access to, including letters from the North Korean leader Kim Jong-un, which he routinely waved at visitors, alarming his advisers." In addition, the Times also reported: "Mr. Trump repeatedly had material sent up to the White House residence, and it was not always clear what happened to it. He sometimes asked to keep material after his intelligence briefings, but aides said he was so uninterested in the paperwork during the briefings themselves that they never understood what he wanted it for." I guess that means our nation's nuclear codes were stored next to the giant Shaq-shoe, and adjacent to a piece of shiny glass that a magpie dropped on the driveway at Mar a Lago. They are all pretty much the same to Donald Trump... trinkets. It's most comforting and reassuring to learn that for four long years the keys to the country were held by the chubby little hands of a psychopathic two-year old. |
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